I've lived in Tokyo since 2019. My first few years in Japan were amazing, I learned the language which was difficult, and settled in quite easily.
I always felt that Japanese people were incredibly warm and friendly to me, especially when my Japanese was weak. As it got better, I felt like I fit into society better despite being white, and life was good.
Over the past two years however, I feel like ethnic Japanese people have become colder and ruder to me. Not just me, but when I go out with a group of non-Japanese friends, sometimes I feel a disdain for us.
Before you say this is paranoia, their reaction almost gets worse when they learn I speak Japanese. It's almost like "Oh great, now you fuckers can talk like us too now." I can't explain it, but I definitely feel this oppression in the air against foreigners.
Look, I get it, the quality of people coming to visit is really dropping. Japan used to be a high class destination but it's now about the same price as Bangkok (at least the touristy areas) and you are getting some really obnoxious crowds coming it… but I spent the time and effort to fit in despite my skin color, and I feel like I'm being discriminated against for the first time in my life.
Does anyone else feel this?
by RedMoonLanding
26 comments
Totally anecdotal, but pre-pandemic Japanese would occasionally approach me on the street to talk to me cause they were curious etc. I can’t even remember the last time that happened. Or maybe it’s just cause I’ve gotten older and look less approachable (I’m a dude, it wasn’t nanpa).
Isn’t that just normal in Tokyo?
>Does anyone else feel this?
No, not even remotely.
Can’t say I’ve felt anything like this, especially after speaking Japanese. If anything, once I speak Japanese I stop getting the tourist treatment and am generally treated better.
I think it’s worth noting though that a majority of the time you’ve called out as having better treatment was the Corona years. That time was unique in that there were 0 tourists. The tourist fatigue hadn’t set in yet and on top of that everyone knew you were a resident. I spent most of the Corona years hanging out and working in Shibuya and the whole vibe was completely different at that time.
> their reaction
You are putting a wall…
You still act like Japanese people should be all over you just because you can speak the language, which in a country you live in should be normal. It’s not the key to anything but the start, every imigrants start behind but once you get a Par you need to get better to be integrated into society.
Most people in this sub are quite past this point and just live their daily life
> I feel like I’m being discriminated against for the first time in my life.
You went to live into another country dude, that’s the base.
Another redditor who can mind read Japanese people. You guys are all amazing. I’m so jealous!
lol what? Why would they be mad at you for the weak economy? Are you alright bro?
Please don’t delete this post. I’m sending it to a friend. Just give it an hour.
I think you need to get off social media and Japan related foreign news sites. Scrub your Algo. The noise messes with your perception of reality
I’ve been here 25 years. I’ve lived in Tokyo for the last 3 cos work. Compared to my home (different prefecture) people are less “friendly” but Tokyo is a big ass city and ain’t no one got any time.
That said, the folk in the local stores, izakaya, restaurants that I frequent are all warm, gracious and friendly cos they see me every other day or week and have done so for the past 3 years.
People here may seem polite. But that doesn’t mean they’re nice.
I felt it a little when I returned post pandemic, however I remembered that the whole world has gotten like this, so it’s not just a Japan thing.
A lot of the ”coldness” is simply a decline in service (still good, but not as good as pre pandemic ) .
After speaking to Japanese friends, they said that the younger Japanese staff don’t know the same style of service, as they mostly observe Indian/Nepalese/Taiwanese staff nowadays, who according to them, aren’t as good at offering the same pre-covid service,
for example they slur their speech, no eye contact, and don’t offer bags.
People in Tokyo are also so used to tourists and foreign students , that they are no longer interesting enough to approach.
Finally, K-pop has been in a monumental rise since forever, making western media and people a lot less interesting.
I know lots of people that have lived in Japan long term, and they all say when your Japanese is broken and not great, it’s the best time. Once you speak fluent Japanese you loose your shine, you’re not interesting anymore. That’s probably what you’re experiencing. We even done an experiment where we went to places and they pretended they couldn’t speak Japanese as well as they could, and they were treated much better.
No man, you are just overthinking and placing yourself into the center of the universe. Go out and touch grass.
As some others have pointed out, you’ve lived in Japan during Corona when tourists weren’t allowed in. I was one of the first ppl able to enter after the pandemic (student Visa) and yeah, people were chill and interested, because there were no obnoxious tourists around, and if you were in Japan during that time you definitely had a reason for it.
Well, that time is over. The tourists are back, and everyone is annoyed again. Get used to it. I lived in Japan in 2015/16 as well, and it was the same as now basically.
Tho, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced people being annoyed when I spoke Japanese, normally quite the opposite.
The “discrimination” point tho? You moved to a country that is known to have a very homogeneous society with thousands of unspoken rules and underlying racism. What did you expect?! Even I, a white woman, have experienced racist comments. But whining won’t help. What will help is being open to people, to fit in, to show people that their prejudice against foreigners is wrong with your actions. Be kind, be understanding, be aware that you are a minority now – so you’re the one that has to adapt.
It could just be that your honeymoon period is wearing off.
I do think that Japanese people have become less social overall (not just to foreigners) since COVID as the economy continues to sputter.
IMO they’re definitely less friendly as a whole, but if you speak Japanese it practically negates the unfriendliness because they know you took an effort to learn the language
That’s right. Because it’s all your fault.
Have a high ball and appreciate fall is coming
Bros the main character
I’ll have been in Tokyo 16 years on Monday.
In the past year specifically I’ve felt a definite shift.
The economy and tourists, might play a part in that, might not.
Fundamentally, it feels like Japanese youth are, overall, shifting away from the west. That air of adulation given to the west has been diminishing since the 90’s perhaps.
Older people, again, as a generalisation, do seem more bitter. An older woman in the building I recently moved to asked if I was renting or had bought, then let out a sigh and walked off when I told her I’d bought. Another who was giving me angry stares in the queue for a bus sat in front of me, searched for Sanseito YouTube shorts on her smartphone and held her phone within my line of sight (the week before the election).
I’m prone to over analysing things, but those two experiences were just blatant.
Its kind of understandable- cost of living has gone up on daily items, meanwhile any joe can come over and proclaim its so cheap here.
Japan generally used to work because whilst costs are very different country to country, Japan can exist in its bubble and people can enjoy the high standard of living in isolation from the world and it’s comparisons.
However now people get a very visible reality check on earning power whilst having to share their previous quiet space with rowdy travelers who in turn are making prices go up.
Ive lived here over 20yrs and perceive a certain change amongst a minority. It may or may not be real. However sentiment spreads, the news can stoke certain stories for Japanese and Foreigners. Whether the sentiment is real or maintains itself is another thing.
The hot weather could also be making people less polite in general.
Not at all but the weather makes everyone short tempered and emotional 🤷🏽♂️
I got the same feeling but now realised it was me projecting. No-one has ever actually been rudely racist to me, except one time before covid. I got turned down from some places when I was with foreigner friends, but that’s been the case ever since I’ve been here. That doesn’t happen when I’m alone (I speak Japanese).
I think the anxiety is valid and there are some real changes in society, but when I’m being fair with my own experience, people are just nice and welcoming as always. But sure I still get treated like a foreigner everywhere, as I was always. It’s just how it is, nothing new.
You arrived in Japan just before COVID hit and the number of foreign visitors dropped to near zero. With the influx and full reopening of the country over the past two years (three even) the number of visitors has exponentially gone back up, ramped further by the weak Japanese yen. As such, it’s not surprising if random folks who have only encountered rude foreign tourists see you as another, similar type. Because unless it’s someone that knows you by name and face (or at least by face and routine, such as a neighborhood baa-chan who always sees you and gives a furtive half-head-bow when putting out morning trash) then most are going to treat you as a visitor.
And even if you have lived here for three decades, speak N1 level natural Japanese, get married to a Japanese spouse, have kids, etc — you will always be 異邦人 , 外人 , or 外国人.
It’s not personal, but it’s also not comfortable. It’s just that Japanese culture is something which hasn’t really had an internal dialogue among its people about what makes a Japanese person Japanese — and is it possible for that same culture to integrate others who are not Japanese via *jus sanguinis*.
Japanese people are patient, but when their limits are exceeded, it’s scary. The elderly in particular have a low limit of tolerance. Most Japanese are angry at the noisy tourists, the Kurds and Chinese in Kawaguchi and other cities who pollute the city, and who lack morals, committing violence and sexual crimes. Because of these annoying people, especially the elderly, who don’t know the difference, will also criticize foreigners who live with morals. Japanese people who are not used to inbound tourism will likely become particularly closed-minded.
Anytime something like this comes up you’ll see half or even most the comments saying it’s imagined and can’t actually be real, usually flexing their few years living in Tokyo as proof.
Non of us are you so it’s impossible to speak to your personal experiences, but, I’d say there’s probably some truth to it. I’ve been living in Tokyo for over 20 years now and the vibe of the public does change depending on what’s happening at that moment. After the 2011 earthquake, when most foreigners fled the country, people were often super happy to see foreigners, it was awesome, if a bit humbling/embarrassing, but the free drinks and other gestures were nice.
Saying the public is a little fatigued with foreigners atm, isn’t really a controversial opinion. Could that result in a little hostility? Sure. I’ve personally noticed some service workers acting a little more stressed than normal and other cracks in what’s usually top notch customer service.
Only time will tell if this is a new thing or just another temporary shift, too soon and pointless to worry about it though.
As a foreigner (30 yrs here) who speaks more than enough Japanese to get by I was never one to lay on the sumimasens that much. Nowadays I am really making sure I am super polite just to send out the message that I am NOT a tourist.
A white guy feeling discriminated against? Try being a person of color.
But all in all, you’re right. I’ve felt discrimination even if I spoke Japanese pre COVID and post COVID it’s gotten worse. Now I confront these people and they disappear the next time they’re crossing paths with me OR I go do my errands in a different part of Tokyo such as Kyobashi where customer service is miles better than Ikebukuro.
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