So, as I mentioned in this thread my wife is going in to have surgery at the infertility clinic and I want to be there for her. But my dispatch company is being a little anal about the usage saying I didn't give the request in 60 days in advance. What will the school think? You can't use this as sick leave. I said that it was for a personal reason. They don't need to know why I am using the PTO.
I thought according to the law here, I was able to use my paid leave at a moments notice? It does say in my contract that I do have to give 60 days in advance. Should I just take the day off and not get paid for it then?
Edit: They are telling me they will give me the day if I chose unpaid. WTF? I have paid holidays.
Edit 2: So, I called the Labour Standards Advice Hotline and they gave me the number to the prefecture hotline. They also stated that yes the dispatch company is going against the law that PTO can be used at any time and that the 30 days in advance was only in their for the company so they could be able to find someone to replace me as sub if needed. Too bad my prefecture one is not opened today though.
by AdUnfair558
21 comments
You have the legal right to use PTO whenever you want. A company can’t just say no. They can SUGGEST another date, but they can’t say no.
You don’t need to even give a day in advance.
Have them put the denial in writing and why, then go to the Labour Bureau and report them.
There is no minimum limit, legally. Standard/cultural practice is 14 calendar days notice. 60 Days is ridiculous.
Also, they can’t actually say no, unless their business will be significantly harmed by your absence. A dispatch company basically never meets this requirement. Keep in mind, you work for the Dispatch company, not the school. If the school is busy, or they don’t have enough staff, that has nothing to do with you and your employer.
If they say no anyway, or try to retaliate against you in any way(even saying things like, “What will the school think?”) it is a violation of your right to time off, and you can report them for it.
Always get it in writing, or you’ll just be wasting your time. Send an email or text with your “request”(It’s not actually a request). If they refuse to reply, then simply tell them “I will be my using my PTO on X day of X month, thank you.” and take your day off.
Edits: Grammar/Spelling
Wait, you don’t have paid sick leave right?
But when you take sick leave they encourage you to take PTO right? There’s your answer in that case.
Just be sick that day and take PTO.
Just go
can’t help with the work stuff but if your wife is undergoing an egg retrieval, ask the clinic what it will actually entail. from my experience you literally rock up, go into a surgery prep room (ladies only), have the surgery then a nap, then prepare to go home. so you would literally be waiting around for a few hours. in australia i needed a support person to drive me home however in japan for some reason i was fine to take a train (just a little sleepy). so if it’s all too intense with your work, perhaps it would be possible for you to drop off your wife or collect her when she’s done? good luck!
I remember once when I first moved out here I was working a full time retail job. Seishain. No PTO for your first 6 months, the legal minimum after that. No bank holidays off. I never declined a single weekend shift, never came late, worked hard. Got on ok with everybody.
After I’d been there for a year, one of my parents came to visit Japan. All I wanted was to take a single day off to spend with them during that time.
My boss declined it. It was such a kick in the teeth after all the work I had put in.
Unfortunately I happened to catch a bad illness on that exact day, so I wasn’t able to come to work.
Please make sure you look after your health, heaven forbid the same thing were to happen to you on the day of your wife’s surgery.
You should assert your legal right to PTO and if they say no for any reason you call Hello Work, which is the Japanese government Labor Bureau.
You don’t have to give any advanced notice. You can use it when you want.
General English consultation number:
0120-531-401
Call them explain your situation and they will give you the number to the local government office that you can call that will deal with your area.
If you can’t speak Japanese ask for a number for someone that can translate for you. There is a charge to talk to that person and I don’t know about it. When I had to call they were very patient with my broken Japanese and did their best to assist me.
60 days in advance? WTF? I don’t think I’ve ever given 60 days advance for any PTO taken in the 20+ years and 5ish workplaces I’ve had in Japan. Definitely double check the laws.
At this point your best bet is to just take a sick day off. They are not going to fire you for that. And they are still obliged to pay you. You tried to be nice and ask in advance and they gave you toxic bullshit. Fuck em.
aren’t you entitled to take care leave (5d/yr) ? imo it is wiser to appeal to your employer’s empathy. now that they know you want to take a day off sick leave is too obvious a lie. you could consider asking for half a day as well.
being on good terms will make your life a lot easier. auspicious reason! medetashi medetashi (not yet though),
sincerely wish both of you the best.
You’ll have kids you’ll need a less stupid company.
I’m very sorry to hear that you are having to go through this. Not surprised at all though.
What others have said: document everything and contact Hello Work.
Hope this unpleasant situation gives you the motivation to find something better (not an easy task over here).
> It does say in my contract that I do have to give 60 days in advance.
You shouldn’t have signed that contract.
60 days advance notice to take a nenkyu day? That’s what we’re talking about, right? They can’t do that. A company can get away with assigning when you take half of your nenkyu days (under shady “black kigyo” factory rules) for the year but the other half they have absolutely no say in. Tell them you’re taking nenkyuu on this day and if they say no, get it in writing and go to the labor board. And start looking for another job, the company may retaliate.
Sounds like you’re planning on starting a family. Now imagine “my wife is going into labor” and they want 60 days notice. Imagine all the family emergencies you’re going to have over the next few decades. This is practice.
Whatever is written in your contract does not supersede labour laws. The laws surrounding the use of PTO can be found in Article 39 of the Labour Standards Act.
https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3567/en#je_ch4at17
In principle, you can use your PTO when you like. Companies can only designate PTO to certain dates if there is a labour-management agreement signed off on by a union representing the majority of the workforce or, in absence of a union, by a non-management worker representative elected by the majority of his/her coworkers. The fact that your employer has a (non-enforceable) policy requiring notification 60 days in advance points toward there being no such agreement. Moreover, even if such an agreement exists, you still have the right to use five days of PTO at will that can not be designated.
A company can request PTO be taken at a different time if the employee’s requested date(s) would disrupt the normal operations of the company. The excuse that your taking PTO will be troublesome for the school would not meet this standard. You simply only need to inform your employer in writing that you will be taking a PTO day for personal reason on whatever date.
As part of the work regulations, if you must submit this request via google forms, do so, but also email your supervisor, boss, or whoever is responsible for PTO “requests” and let them know that you have submitted the form, but you are also contacting them personally to let them know. Be sure to include the date of your intended PTO day in the email.
I suspect one of the reasons your company is telling you to take the day off without pay is because using your official PTO can not be considered absenteeism or non-fulfillment of duties. However, they could try to claim that your use of an unpaid day off, even with their agreement, is technically considered absenteeism or non-fulfillment of duties and use this a reason not to renew your contract or not to pay a completion bonus if you normally receive one.
Courts have ruled that a few days notice for a week off is enough, so literally you could tell the previous evening that you’re taking the next day off and be within your rights.
That said, your future relationship might be ruined with the management.
Probably better to start slowly looking for the next opportunities after this rebuttal.
Also, go be with your wife.
Throwaway.
My company did this. They want to “encourage” people to take unpaid leave because they either don’t want people to take vacation or want to try to min max payroll. Management would make it a massive pain and drag their feet on any approvals. They’d cave if you fought it. Though it required calling up the office and asking for updates over and over again. I’d go ahead and tell them the reason as well “wife is getting surgery and I want to be with her” as it will make them feel like extra shit for trying to deny it.
At any rate you need to basically just be like.”I’m taking this day off” and don’t accept no as an answer. Go anyway. And later if they deny it or don’t try to pay you raise a fuss and take it to the labor office. I used to pull shit like “well my family is more important to me than this job so if you won’t accept my two week notice for a single day off, then you definitely won’t accept my immediate resignation, but it hardly matters if you accept it or not because I’m not coming in regardless, which do you prefer? That you give me a single paid day off or I take unlimited unpaid time off effective immediately?
Also would recommend you start looking for a different job that doesn’t have this issue. They’ll also whine about how you have to give two months notice and their approval for quitting but you can just laugh at them. What are they gonna do? Fire you? They could supposedly sue you in court but that would cost them money and they can’t even afford to give you PTO, how can they afford court? To say nothing of how the court will look unfavorably towards contracts that don’t follow the labor law.
They don’t have the legal right to refuse your leave, no matter how much or how little advance notice you give, unless they can prove that your absence on that particular day is harmful to their business. It doesn’t matter what it says in your contract, that’s the law. There is no “PTO request” – you are *telling* them that you’re taking leave that day, and they don’t have any legal standing to refuse. Tell them you’re taking PTO that day, tell them to fuck off of they try to stop you, and if they make any problems or don’t pay you for the day off, go to the labor office and let them know. Grow a pair and stand up to your shitty employer, being there for your wife is way more important than any job.
Have you talked to your current client?
While a number of companies phrase using PTO as a request, it isn’t. The reality is you’re notifying them that you’re using it.
There are very significant (legal) hurdles that a company needs to clear to deny your PTO, and even if they do, they need to propose an alternate, equivalent day within a reasonable time frame from your requested date that is acceptable to you.
PS: You do not have to let your company know the reason as well, and I have always just indicated “personal reasons” for those who ask.
“I’m sorry if you misunderstood. I am not requesting to take PTO. I’m notifying you that I am taking it.“
Ultimately, you might be fighting them over just a day (or a few days) of pay. Go be with your wife and figure out the rest later.
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