Currently a foreigner married to my Japanese husband for about 5 years. Posting this here given the cultural context but, it’s getting very difficult to deal with the amount of nomikais my husband has to attend each month (at least 4) plus long working hours (sometimes 6 days a week, and 12-14 hour long days once a week). I also have a full time job and we split house responsibilities. I clean, he cooks. Due to his greater involvement with work recently, he hasn’t been holding up his end of house responsibilities and it’s hard for be to mitigate due to my own work schedule and responsibilities. I try to help him when he has longer working hours days, because I understand he’s tired, but I can’t help but feel it’s a bit unfair.
I also just don’t like seeing him drunk. It makes me feel so anxious. And even if he’s not drunk, whenever he does drink alcohol, he always talks in his sleep and it disturbs my own sleep.
We’ve had numerous convos about this. He says he participates only in the essential nomikais and is doing it to get along well with everyone and to help improve his promotion chances later down the line. We’ve tried setting times for him to come back from a nomikai, but he often ends up staying past the time we agreed on and comes back 1-3AM.
What pushed me to upload this today was that though I thought he had no more nomikais for this year, he decided to join one today randomly and now I am left to deal with cooking by myself again and am also just aggravated that the expectation of not having to worry about another nomikai was completely shattered.
My own work context: I’m fully remote, so don’t really have any work nomikais.
Has anyone been through a similar thing? Hiw have you dealt with this in a way that honors both party’s wishes?
by Plane_Hope270
29 comments
I mean, if he wants to get promoted and have a good working life with his colleagues, nomikai is the way to go about doing that.
I think this is in part a spouse problem unfortunately. There are plenty of people who know how to decline nomikai invitations, or go but not drink, or at least go but leave when they’ve told their families they will.
On the other hand, it is likely that going to nomikais will help with getting promotions. This is a hard situation.
I understand the obligation to work long hours. I understand the obligation to attend nomikais.
But there is no reason to have to come back 1-3AM, especially when he promised to be back earlier. At a nomikai, he simply needs to tell the coworkers he needs to leave, and leave. That’s it.
If he isn’t able to uphold a promise, then you need to have a serious conversation with him, and lay out your conditions. 1 more chance, and if he fails, you may need to reconsider your relationship.
ive a few friends married to Japanese and this has been the constant topic we discuss. its a stupid culture, i dont care what anyone says. it brings more harm, no promotion is worth having constant annoyance at your spouse come home drunk.
I work in tokyo. Four a month isn’t crazy. Now there are more than usual as it’s end year and new year nomikai season.
I’m sorry, but I would say cute him some slack. He is probably doing the best he can, and trying to be there for you and also doing his obligation. I maybe get downvoted for this, but this is how I see it. Working in Japan can be hard sometimes, and many Japanese don’t know how to say no at work. He probably has tried. Talk to him.
Why does he have so many? Assuming he works for one company, shouldn’t only one be *essential*?
,, marries Japanese salary man
,, Japanese salary man does a salary man
,, Foreign wife upset
???
4 nomikais a month lol. He loves going to nomikais or wherever it is he’s actually going otherwise he wouldn’t be going 4 times a month.
My husband hates drinking, and started skipping nomikais (he’s a farmer) at my instigation. I’m not sure, but it may have cost him some non-farm opportunities.
I think they are a necessary evil. It’s best to budget for them, and whoever stays home should get a treat night.
I’m surprised you don’t have bonenkai at your work.
Re: the drinking. I would let him stay out late (and ditto for you when you have work parties), but ask him to cut the alcohol. Alternate between drinks and oolong tea, or simply switch to oolong after three drinks. I’ve seen people stick to oolong all night, tbh.
You can fix him up a bed next to the sofa for his late nights. Have a bottle of water & ibuprofen on the coffee table.
Do keep communication open.
End of the year parties are really important for keeping up work and personal networks.
My JP husband used to be like this until he started working abroad. He went straight to nomikais even after being on duty the night before. So that was like more than 24 hrs of being at work. But deep inside he hated it, he just had no choice, or at least felt that he had no choice but to join them.
It’s Japanese business culture that you have to accept unless you want to hamper his business opportunities.. if it disturbs your sleep get some ear plugs. I have spoken to numerous Japanese businessmen who hate it as it’s unhealthy and exhausting, however they all agree that it’s a must. I would suggest you support your partner.
Nomikais are but one tool to secure job advancement opportunities, even at a JTC. If need be and he is highly competent, there are other ways to build that presence.
That being said, he is likely overvaluing the importance and effectiveness of such frequent nomikais. Or, he simply just really likes nomikais.
A lot of people are saying “it might be worth if it’s for the promotion” but the way I see it, the way he isn’t even remotely making a compromise such as declining just every once in a while, or not drinking so much or not drinking at all etc.
It looks to me like the nomikais won’t stop after the promotion. Seems more to me like you are lower on the list of priorities compared to the nomikais to him (and I mean a lot lower)
My wife is a manager in a mega Japanese company. I am a fairly senior manager in a foreign company. For around the past 10 years, I have been out probably 3x per year at night. My wife? Average would be maybe 6x per month.
When she was still in the union, at least the work hours and commute were a bit better. Around 2 years ago she got promoted and it got worse. Then they transferred her to another city that we are not going to move to, so she commutes 5 hours a day and sometimes just gets hotel rooms over there.
It all got too much for both of us. She would not argue if I said I do 80% of the domestic work. And she was getting anxiety with all of this. So we finally decided it was time for her to change jobs (thankfully she landed one and will start next year). So we were both burning out.
You’ve got to support each other and decide together how things should work for your family. It shouldn’t be a point-scoring exercise and it does take a good relationship to calmy talk through. It’s also ok to say maybe you should be a single income. We thought about it for sure, but my wife was able to land a mostly remote position.
if he is doing this for a very long time. No matter what argument you go through it will be hard.
Its either you accept this now and try to get used to it or you are going to b*tch about it for the rest of your relationship.
I have a japanese partner and the situation they have to deal at work is already hard enough. The expectations and the stress they have to deal with is already hard. Compared to other countries the way japanese people feel about “sekinin” especially at work is kinda ridiculous.
I am not saying I am siding with him but thats something you would need to cope with. If it will be hard for you figure it out now before you have kids.
I’ve stopped going to mine with zero consequences. If you can’t communicate with people despite being in the same room as them 5/6 days a week, getting drunk with them will make no difference. It’s possible it depends on the industry and how senior your husband is, though.
While I empathize with your situation, I feel that as a man doing his best in his career in Japan, you can’t really blame him for his nomikais. He’s in his element and you should let him be.
If you don’t have kids, him going out 1/week shouldn’t cause problems with the chores tbh. 1-3AM sounds a bit late (and expensive). Keep in mind it’s the nomikai season and people go out a lot.
I’d really be worried about having kids. For now, your chores are almost insignificant but if he keeps doing that when you have little kids, your life will be hell.
I’m sort in a similar situation except it’s my wife. Being in a senior position she is involved in many more nomikais than I am and works late sometimes. We just take it in strides and be flexible about it. If both of us are particularly busy we just don’t cook and eat out or UBER, and leave some chores for the weekend. I know how difficult it can be to say no to nomikais that have direct business consequences so I don’t criticize her about it because the last thing she needs is attending a nomikai she doesn’t want to be a part of or late night meeting and then coming home to an unhappy me. If it was the other way around I would certainly want it that way
You need to be saying all this to him.
You said you have discussed. Discuss again. About this specific occurrence and all others.
There’s nothing any of us can do or say about this situation. Some people would accept some people wouldn’t. Every relationship is different and every person has different expectations. It’s up to you to communicate yours to him. And if he doesn’t change behaviour, it’s up to you to decide what to do about that.
My wife has a more Japanese working style than me and I’m often having to finish work, pick up our kid, look after her and cook dinner then bathe her and so on.
Unless I’ve got something ahead of time I just cook for me and my daughter and let my wife get her own dinner, and then whoever can clean. I’ll leave her the dishes or something to do so she can contribute.
We are both so busy that we often end up cleaning extra at the weekends.
Maybe you could reconsider that division of labour? It seems too clean cut for me. Just get your own food and leave him some stuff to clean when he has time. For me you both need to do cooking and cleaning when you can. Maybe it’s being parents, but a division of labour like that would absolutely fall down at some point.
Also, if your husband is going out all the time, I’d say take advantage of that by getting yourself out at the weekends with friends.
My Japanese husband would sometimes have to go to nomikais on a short notice. He’d call to say that they were going out, and he had to go.
I didn’t understand, until I had a full-time job at a work place with a lot of tension. After one particularly fraught meeting, I was the one calling home to say, “we have to go out drinking”.
I don’t know whether it is excessive in your husband’s case, but it might be something that he feels that he needs to do.
I mean…
Your husband might find a better job with more work life balance… or he might move to an even blacker company and quit within 3 months making his next job switch even more difficult.
Don’t ask me why I know.
There is no correct answer in life. Talk to your husband. See what he wants, tell him what you want. Make a decision together. Understand the risks and take them if you feel lucky.
Good luck.
But nothing is out of the ordinary. Your husband might be a tiny bit “above the hump” on the black company bell curve… but I have personally experienced worse.
I got an annoyed tongue click for telling my senpai that I was going to leave because I would miss my last train home.
The following day he laid out apartment ads for apartments close to work.
Four nomikais a month is not that many. If he’s employed by a very traditional company, it might be the bare minimum.
I can’t speak to your, or his, specific situation, but having worked at my share of Japanese firms and gone to more nomikais than I care to count, I can tell you it’s part of the job. I assure you that a fair number of the people attending (often myself included) don’t really want to be there.
The getting drunk thing is another matter. That’s controllable. You keep your beer 2/3 full and act a bit tipsy and you can usually get through the evening reasonably sober.
You might want to cut him some slack on having to go to the nomikais, and talk to him about the getting drunk part.
I have a Japanese coworker who has a Japanese wife who doesn’t like it when he goes to nomikais. After they had their first son he stopped drinking completely.
That being said, my company does not give any pressure for employees to participate in nomikais. We just had our Christmas party and even video called him from home with his wife and son.
That being said, I am aware there are companies where the culture practically makes it mandatory for employees to attend. And if you don’t go you’re practically destroying your career. When it’s time for promotions it’s known that some managers factor in an employee’s “performance” at nomikais.
I feel for you. Fortunately, my husband (Japanese) is able to work from home most days, so he’s not going to nomikais very often. And I only work part time, so we do get to spend the majority of our time together. But because he seems to have made some good friends at work, I don’t mind him staying out late on the few nights that he does go. I know how you feel on the whole being surprised with having to do dinner alone. Though it’s not as big of a deal for my situation when that happens, it doesn’t mean I don’t still feel some disappointment. I actually enjoy spending time with my husband, so it always makes me a little sad when I can’t have dinner with him. If he did that every week…that would open a whole can of worms for me. But that’s because I already deal with so much disappointment from my husband in other areas. If I were fully taken care of emotionally by him, I wonder if I would be more okay with my husband going to nomikais every week. I wonder if it’s similar for you. I suspect it is, since your husband hasn’t even honored the curfew you two set. I, for one, can only handle so much disappointment until I’m at my limit. It’s hard to understand your husband’s perspective when he’s also not even trying to understand yours. I experience that pretty much everyday. I don’t think you’re being unfair. I think you’re being pushed over the edge. And you’re not crazy for being upset. When your husband is being a pushover for everyone except for his own wife…that’s pretty crazy imo. I hope you can have a frank conversation with him, and I hope he’s more receptive. Hoping the best for you! ❤️
I’m married to a Japanese man, and he doesn’t have many nomikais, but he does work long hours. When married to a Japanese man you’re going to have to let go of the idea of everything being 50-50. Even though my husband is good at cooking and cleaning and wants to do his share, he just doesn’t have enough time to do it. It’s way easier and more peaceful for me to just pick up the slack and do what I have time/energy for, even if that means I’m doing 70-80% of the housework. I do it for myself and my kid and to ensure we have healthy meals and a relatively clean home to live in.
Maybe if you had 2 kids maybe I’d understand the “aggravation of cooking” and being overwhelmed by housework… but otherwise it seems pretty childish to be flustered by suddenly having to feed yourself. You can make yourself something in 10 minutes, or cook your favorite thing… or go out, order, wtv. Enjoy your own company?
Going out with coworkers once week isn’t outrageous even by western standards. Is he going out with friends every weekend too, or is this most of his socializing? In a month, 4 days out of 30 he’s socializing?
Maybe split house responsibilities differently so he can’t get out of it through nomikais.
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