Immigrants intend to settle down. Expats are temporarily here for work.
Expat is 上から目線する
Immigrant is 上から目線される
I hope you get the nuances
Expats are white
Expat is a person who is basically “expatriated” by their company to Japan for short term, usually their salaries are disproportionately higher than average and they have benefits such as paid housing in the heart of Roppongi, kids sent to international school etc. and they have no reason or incentive to learn the language or integrate because they can pay someone to translate for them. Or the HR department will figure out things for them and they don’t have to lift a finger. Their numbers are fairly low amongst foreigners in Japan.
There are immigrants who refer to themselves as “expat” when they are not tho and it sounds amusing to me because it has “I’m sexier than *those* immigrants” vibes lol. Usually it’s a person with passport privilege.
Ive worked at foreign companies but usually we say expat when the person is on the HQ or foreign branch payroll. and local hire if you are on the local branch payroll.
Some people need to feel better than others. That’s all. Everyone’s an immigrant, just check the law.
Expat sounds “nicer” so white people use it. It’s got a nuance of being somewhere temporarily. And usually they are sent there by a company.
I always referred to myself as an immigrant even though I planned to go back to my home country eventually, and did during the pandemic.
Id be open to returning if japan ever does gay marriage 😐
some dont intend to settle, instead planning on returning to wherever they call home
others don’t wish to call themselves immigrants, maybe because they don’t know if japan is “home” for them or maybe because they view immigrant as different to them so expat is the only other simple option
Its what white people who look down on immigrants in their home country call themselves when they emigrate, to distinguish themselves from those lowly immigrants.
Why are people use skin color here to explain why one person explains themselves as immigrant or another as expat? Class is better indicator, I think.
I find the “you’re not an expat you’re an immigrant” thing that has been going for the last ten years a bit tedious, tinged as it is with the accusation of racism (“why are only whites expats etc?”). Is it still worth yet another conversation on this perennial topic – OP you must have come across this topic elsewhere before – does it really need to be rolled out again?
Everyone living abroad is an expat from the perspective of their country. And some are immigrants.
But another way it is most commonly used is in the sense of ‘skilled foreign labour, especially those who temporarily move abroad with their employer.”
No one suggests that Japanese bankers in London are immigrants – they are expats. If you referred to the London Japanese expat community to another Londoner, they would know exactly what you mean. But if a Japanese moves to London for good, perhaps with a British spouse, they are an immigrant.
Why do you care ?
LLM could have given an answer in less time than it takes to post here. But I guess the point wasn’t to find out, but rather to call out the fake expats 😁
I am a “LEGAL ALIEN” to use words preferred by one certain leader
Because most of the white people think poor brown people only are immigrants, so they call themselves expat even though they aren’t.
(I’m a white immigrant, for the record)
internet racists refuse to understand but expats go home when their contract finishes and immigrants stay. that’s the difference.
Usually, an expat moves to a foreign country for a short time, usually for work. This could be for 6 months, a year or even ten years. Their intention is to return home once their purpose for moving is served.
An immigrant plays for keeps. They go with the intention of setting up a new life in this country and staying forever.
Immigrant and expat are two completely different terms, and while you can be both in some situations, those who use the terms interchangeably need to open a dictionary.
“Expat” makes me think of people who live/work in Minato-ku and shop at places like National Azabu.
Racism – it’s the same in Australia. Eg. All the English and Irish immigrants are expats and other countries are immigrants. Crazy stuff.
What are you all on about? I was told I’m just a くそ外人. Isn’t that what all you are too? The old man in the park said so, soooo…
Expat sounds rich while immigrant sounds poor. Pretty easy.
Again?
Not in Japan, but:
1. My visa says “NON-IMMIGRANT” in big bold letters at the top;
2. If I display any intention to immigrate to here, it’s a violation of my visa terms and grounds for immediate deportation; while I have never tested this, it therefore seems very ill-advised to go around referring to myself as an “immigrant”.
So, how exactly am I supposed to refer to myself and others like me? It’s almost as if we need another word that refers to someone who is living in another country for an extended period but not necessarily permanently? If only there were a word for that…
(Not white, BTW—not that it should make a difference…)
In my own head the difference lies in future plans. Temporary posting with a plan to go back, expat. Permanent move with no plan to go back, immigrant.
Immigrant if your plan is to stay forever and aim for nationalization. Expat if there are plans to maintain ties with your own country. That is how I have always seen it anyway. Plus Japan makes sure you know you are not Japanese, and immigrant tends to have an implication of having come to become the new nationality, so it feels weird.
Quick answer: for a lot of white people, “immigrant” is a word reserved only for non-white people moving to a different country. It’s beneath them.
Most people claiming to be “expats” are immigrants. And there’s nothing wrong with being an immigrant.
In real life, I actually find it’s fairly rare that people will explicitly refer to themselves as one or the other using those terms. When I’ve heard them do so, it’s been to make the same point by stating they’re immigrants.
Functionally:
expat = expectation to return full-time to home country
immigrant = no expectation to return full-time to home country
They’re two different things in the way they’re used.
Expat is just a long term visitor
Immigrant here. Most people here are white so the word “immigrant” has an unconscious white superiority bias associated with it. In countries like Singapore is even worse. I know few people who had been living there for decades (some now with Singaporean passport) and they still call themselves expats.
White people call themselves “expats” because they associate “immigrants” with poor brown people.
An expat is someone who lives outside their native country and an immigrant is someone who lives permanently in a foreign country. Immigrant isn’t a bad word, it’s just an inaccurate word to describe most of the English-speaking foreigners in Japan. No one says “I was an immigrant in Japan for seven years teaching English”. It’s not a tenuous identity like that.
I hate the term expat because basically, have you ever seen this label applied to someone who isn’t white or from a white country?
It is supposed to signify that you were sent there temporarily often by your company, but now everyone calls them it. I met a guy online who was no longer living in Japan an vehemently anti-immigration (on Japan’s behalf). He insisted that I call him an expat because ‘he wasn’t there permanently.’ He was there for 12 years, longer than most of the immigrants he lambasts will actually be there for.
More ‘expat’ versus ‘economic migrant’, I’d say.
I view the giver as more short-term, shifted between countries on postings by their employer. On generous ‘expat packages’.
The latter less tied to a single company, possibly longer term.
Not adding for all to agree, but that’s my take.
***
Further, in socio-cultural and historical terms, the term ‘expat’ may be seen as somewhat loaded, and thus awkward. ‘White wealthy person goes to distant barbaric land’ kinda thing. Ouch.
An expat “brings their own job” with them to sponsor their visa – freelance, own company, create a startup, move within their company to the Japan branch, EoR.
An immigrant is entering the “normal” job market in Japan and needs a domestic company to sponsor their visa.
Who left his/her own country are immigrant and emigrant.
From the point of view of your motherland you are an emigrant.
From the point of view of the country you go to live in, you are an immigrant.
The meaning is the same but the point of view is different.
Expat, from Latin “Ex Patria” that means “from/outside fatherland” so can be used for both immigrants and emigrants. By the way, in the past, it was used for who was forced to leave his/her own country.
Even now, if you are forced by your company to move to a foreign country you don’t like you’re an expat but you are not happy to be it…
But yes, in Japan we’re all gaijin.
They are an expat from their POV because they have left their home country temporarily (expatriation). They plan to return to their home country (repatriation).
From the POV of the people in the country they are entering they could be called a migrant worker. Immigrant implies a permanent move.
Does that make sense? It’s just a difference in POV.
ITT: 80 posters repeating the same three possible answers (dictionary definition, popular perception, and cynical version of popular perception), one of which is always right depending on the circumstance, and everyone else getting big mad about it for some reason, *probably* because they call themselves an expat and don’t like being correctly told why.
I think the working definition lies in the (A) reason and (B) length of time. Those who come over on a 2 year contract with some big company and supplied housing and a high salary, and have the intention of returning home after said contract is up would be an “expat”. They may not see Japan as home, more as a temporary era of their professional life. Therefore they may not feel particularly eager to learn Japanese or meet local friends. They’re fine in their bubble.
Those who intentionally move here to build a life, find work, escape hardship in their country, marry their partner who is a local, etc and intend to live in Japan for the foreseeable future would be an “immigrant”. They likely don’t see life in Japan as temporary, it feels more like home. They may make more of an effort to learn Japanese, assimilate, and contribute to society and their local communities.
That’s just my take.
Expat is coming short term, don’t intend to apply for residency/citizenship/asylum whatever. Hence usually from rich country.
Immigrant comes with clear purpose: this is my new country, I’m going to stay here, I’m gonna claim residency and citizenship whatever it takes. Not coming to my 3rd world country unless it’s no more 3rd world.
all Indians leave India with immigrant intent just saying
Expatriate;
short term assignment (a few years)
Company housing, international school for kids, etc. High flyer
An Indian executive dispatched from Infosys to Japan with a good package would be an expat, while a French national teaching heavily accented English in a language school on his spouse visa would be an immigrant.
Purely status and length of stay distinction
If a local hire wants to call themselves an expat it’s just hubris
Expat means you can leave the country for another first world one, you’re not worried about gaining citizenship or a passport.
Immigrant means this is your best option and you’re trying to gain citizenship
Classism and racism is why.
Because what white person have you seen call themselves an immigrant.
Because people who come to Japan from abroad are weird and think their special
> 99.9% of the people in this sub call themselves an expat
Do they? When I first moved here, back when God’s dog was a puppy, the people calling themselves “expats” were people who were sent to Japan for a few years to work in the Tokyo branch of some giant financial institution and get paid ungodly sums of money to live in an English bubble. The rest of us were just immigrants. I don’t know if it’s changed; as I said, I’ve been here a long-ass time.
Expats are white.
Immigrants have the other skin colors.
That is the sad reality I that guess. At least expats are rich, immigrants poor.
Actually, the „business definition“ of expats being company send is dominant now, but originally it just means someone living outside his country
The main difference is the intent of being in that country. Generally, someone referred to as an expat is in a country temporarily or for a stint of work and intends to return home. Those referred to as immigrants move to a different country with the intent to live there permanently.
48 comments
Immigrants intend to settle down. Expats are temporarily here for work.
Expat is 上から目線する
Immigrant is 上から目線される
I hope you get the nuances
Expats are white
Expat is a person who is basically “expatriated” by their company to Japan for short term, usually their salaries are disproportionately higher than average and they have benefits such as paid housing in the heart of Roppongi, kids sent to international school etc. and they have no reason or incentive to learn the language or integrate because they can pay someone to translate for them. Or the HR department will figure out things for them and they don’t have to lift a finger. Their numbers are fairly low amongst foreigners in Japan.
There are immigrants who refer to themselves as “expat” when they are not tho and it sounds amusing to me because it has “I’m sexier than *those* immigrants” vibes lol. Usually it’s a person with passport privilege.
Ive worked at foreign companies but usually we say expat when the person is on the HQ or foreign branch payroll. and local hire if you are on the local branch payroll.
Some people need to feel better than others. That’s all. Everyone’s an immigrant, just check the law.
Expat sounds “nicer” so white people use it. It’s got a nuance of being somewhere temporarily. And usually they are sent there by a company.
I always referred to myself as an immigrant even though I planned to go back to my home country eventually, and did during the pandemic.
Id be open to returning if japan ever does gay marriage 😐
some dont intend to settle, instead planning on returning to wherever they call home
others don’t wish to call themselves immigrants, maybe because they don’t know if japan is “home” for them or maybe because they view immigrant as different to them so expat is the only other simple option
Its what white people who look down on immigrants in their home country call themselves when they emigrate, to distinguish themselves from those lowly immigrants.
Why are people use skin color here to explain why one person explains themselves as immigrant or another as expat? Class is better indicator, I think.
I find the “you’re not an expat you’re an immigrant” thing that has been going for the last ten years a bit tedious, tinged as it is with the accusation of racism (“why are only whites expats etc?”). Is it still worth yet another conversation on this perennial topic – OP you must have come across this topic elsewhere before – does it really need to be rolled out again?
Everyone living abroad is an expat from the perspective of their country. And some are immigrants.
But another way it is most commonly used is in the sense of ‘skilled foreign labour, especially those who temporarily move abroad with their employer.”
No one suggests that Japanese bankers in London are immigrants – they are expats. If you referred to the London Japanese expat community to another Londoner, they would know exactly what you mean. But if a Japanese moves to London for good, perhaps with a British spouse, they are an immigrant.
Why do you care ?
LLM could have given an answer in less time than it takes to post here. But I guess the point wasn’t to find out, but rather to call out the fake expats 😁
I am a “LEGAL ALIEN” to use words preferred by one certain leader
Because most of the white people think poor brown people only are immigrants, so they call themselves expat even though they aren’t.
(I’m a white immigrant, for the record)
internet racists refuse to understand but expats go home when their contract finishes and immigrants stay. that’s the difference.
Usually, an expat moves to a foreign country for a short time, usually for work. This could be for 6 months, a year or even ten years. Their intention is to return home once their purpose for moving is served.
An immigrant plays for keeps. They go with the intention of setting up a new life in this country and staying forever.
Expat : rich immigrant.
Immigrant: poor immigrant.
Same thing in Hong Kong.
Immigrant and expat are two completely different terms, and while you can be both in some situations, those who use the terms interchangeably need to open a dictionary.
“Expat” makes me think of people who live/work in Minato-ku and shop at places like National Azabu.
Racism – it’s the same in Australia. Eg. All the English and Irish immigrants are expats and other countries are immigrants. Crazy stuff.
What are you all on about? I was told I’m just a くそ外人. Isn’t that what all you are too? The old man in the park said so, soooo…
Expat sounds rich while immigrant sounds poor. Pretty easy.
Again?
Not in Japan, but:
1. My visa says “NON-IMMIGRANT” in big bold letters at the top;
2. If I display any intention to immigrate to here, it’s a violation of my visa terms and grounds for immediate deportation; while I have never tested this, it therefore seems very ill-advised to go around referring to myself as an “immigrant”.
So, how exactly am I supposed to refer to myself and others like me? It’s almost as if we need another word that refers to someone who is living in another country for an extended period but not necessarily permanently? If only there were a word for that…
(Not white, BTW—not that it should make a difference…)
In my own head the difference lies in future plans. Temporary posting with a plan to go back, expat. Permanent move with no plan to go back, immigrant.
Immigrant if your plan is to stay forever and aim for nationalization. Expat if there are plans to maintain ties with your own country. That is how I have always seen it anyway. Plus Japan makes sure you know you are not Japanese, and immigrant tends to have an implication of having come to become the new nationality, so it feels weird.
Quick answer: for a lot of white people, “immigrant” is a word reserved only for non-white people moving to a different country. It’s beneath them.
Most people claiming to be “expats” are immigrants. And there’s nothing wrong with being an immigrant.
In real life, I actually find it’s fairly rare that people will explicitly refer to themselves as one or the other using those terms. When I’ve heard them do so, it’s been to make the same point by stating they’re immigrants.
Functionally:
expat = expectation to return full-time to home country
immigrant = no expectation to return full-time to home country
They’re two different things in the way they’re used.
Expat is just a long term visitor
Immigrant here. Most people here are white so the word “immigrant” has an unconscious white superiority bias associated with it. In countries like Singapore is even worse. I know few people who had been living there for decades (some now with Singaporean passport) and they still call themselves expats.
White people call themselves “expats” because they associate “immigrants” with poor brown people.
An expat is someone who lives outside their native country and an immigrant is someone who lives permanently in a foreign country. Immigrant isn’t a bad word, it’s just an inaccurate word to describe most of the English-speaking foreigners in Japan. No one says “I was an immigrant in Japan for seven years teaching English”. It’s not a tenuous identity like that.
I hate the term expat because basically, have you ever seen this label applied to someone who isn’t white or from a white country?
It is supposed to signify that you were sent there temporarily often by your company, but now everyone calls them it. I met a guy online who was no longer living in Japan an vehemently anti-immigration (on Japan’s behalf). He insisted that I call him an expat because ‘he wasn’t there permanently.’ He was there for 12 years, longer than most of the immigrants he lambasts will actually be there for.
More ‘expat’ versus ‘economic migrant’, I’d say.
I view the giver as more short-term, shifted between countries on postings by their employer. On generous ‘expat packages’.
The latter less tied to a single company, possibly longer term.
Not adding for all to agree, but that’s my take.
***
Further, in socio-cultural and historical terms, the term ‘expat’ may be seen as somewhat loaded, and thus awkward. ‘White wealthy person goes to distant barbaric land’ kinda thing. Ouch.
An expat “brings their own job” with them to sponsor their visa – freelance, own company, create a startup, move within their company to the Japan branch, EoR.
An immigrant is entering the “normal” job market in Japan and needs a domestic company to sponsor their visa.
Who left his/her own country are immigrant and emigrant.
From the point of view of your motherland you are an emigrant.
From the point of view of the country you go to live in, you are an immigrant.
The meaning is the same but the point of view is different.
Expat, from Latin “Ex Patria” that means “from/outside fatherland” so can be used for both immigrants and emigrants. By the way, in the past, it was used for who was forced to leave his/her own country.
Even now, if you are forced by your company to move to a foreign country you don’t like you’re an expat but you are not happy to be it…
But yes, in Japan we’re all gaijin.
They are an expat from their POV because they have left their home country temporarily (expatriation). They plan to return to their home country (repatriation).
From the POV of the people in the country they are entering they could be called a migrant worker. Immigrant implies a permanent move.
Does that make sense? It’s just a difference in POV.
ITT: 80 posters repeating the same three possible answers (dictionary definition, popular perception, and cynical version of popular perception), one of which is always right depending on the circumstance, and everyone else getting big mad about it for some reason, *probably* because they call themselves an expat and don’t like being correctly told why.
I think the working definition lies in the (A) reason and (B) length of time. Those who come over on a 2 year contract with some big company and supplied housing and a high salary, and have the intention of returning home after said contract is up would be an “expat”. They may not see Japan as home, more as a temporary era of their professional life. Therefore they may not feel particularly eager to learn Japanese or meet local friends. They’re fine in their bubble.
Those who intentionally move here to build a life, find work, escape hardship in their country, marry their partner who is a local, etc and intend to live in Japan for the foreseeable future would be an “immigrant”. They likely don’t see life in Japan as temporary, it feels more like home. They may make more of an effort to learn Japanese, assimilate, and contribute to society and their local communities.
That’s just my take.
Expat is coming short term, don’t intend to apply for residency/citizenship/asylum whatever. Hence usually from rich country.
Immigrant comes with clear purpose: this is my new country, I’m going to stay here, I’m gonna claim residency and citizenship whatever it takes. Not coming to my 3rd world country unless it’s no more 3rd world.
all Indians leave India with immigrant intent just saying
Expatriate;
short term assignment (a few years)
Company housing, international school for kids, etc. High flyer
An Indian executive dispatched from Infosys to Japan with a good package would be an expat, while a French national teaching heavily accented English in a language school on his spouse visa would be an immigrant.
Purely status and length of stay distinction
If a local hire wants to call themselves an expat it’s just hubris
Expat means you can leave the country for another first world one, you’re not worried about gaining citizenship or a passport.
Immigrant means this is your best option and you’re trying to gain citizenship
Classism and racism is why.
Because what white person have you seen call themselves an immigrant.
Because people who come to Japan from abroad are weird and think their special
> 99.9% of the people in this sub call themselves an expat
Do they? When I first moved here, back when God’s dog was a puppy, the people calling themselves “expats” were people who were sent to Japan for a few years to work in the Tokyo branch of some giant financial institution and get paid ungodly sums of money to live in an English bubble. The rest of us were just immigrants. I don’t know if it’s changed; as I said, I’ve been here a long-ass time.
Expats are white.
Immigrants have the other skin colors.
That is the sad reality I that guess. At least expats are rich, immigrants poor.
Actually, the „business definition“ of expats being company send is dominant now, but originally it just means someone living outside his country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate?wprov=sfti1#
Kind of surprised this is a question, honestly..
The main difference is the intent of being in that country. Generally, someone referred to as an expat is in a country temporarily or for a stint of work and intends to return home. Those referred to as immigrants move to a different country with the intent to live there permanently.
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