They should have chosen “Japan’s Shinkansen” from the start… The fate of Indonesia’s high-speed rail project that betrayed Japan and clung to Xi Jinping
by jjrs
They should have chosen “Japan’s Shinkansen” from the start… The fate of Indonesia’s high-speed rail project that betrayed Japan and clung to Xi Jinping
by jjrs
27 comments
>ただ、近年は特に政府間で日本とインドネシアの人的ネットワークがさびつき、中国に後れをとってきた。ここに日本側の慢心があったことは認めなければならない。
“However, especially in recent years, the personal and governmental networks between Japan and Indonesia have weakened and rusted, causing Japan to fall behind China. We must acknowledge that complacency on the Japanese side has been a factor in this.”
Japan being incredibly racist to SEA had to catch up to them eventually. China offers more competitive deals, better technology and… basic human respect? Can see why countries are abandoning Japan.
I don’t think it’s betrayal or politics more than economics or a cost performance issue.
High speed rail systems are notoriously expensive to maintain and around the world the majority of them operate at a loss. They probably couldn’t see the justification of paying 3 times more for Japanese trains vs one made of alibaba parts.
Japan should worry more about losing the automobile business to china.
China include tech transfer while japan is not. The choice is clear
My understanding is that the cost to implement the Japan Shinkansen system made it unprofitable for Indonesia
So knowing that, the decision to go with China’s model makes sense
Having extensively ridden both lines I’d say I prefer China’s cost performance and Japan’s scheduling method
China has transferred technology to Indonesia when others have objected to it so I don’t see why Indonesia wouldn’t have a better relationship with them. They produce 60% of nickel exports in the world but when they banned the export of raw material looking to instead refine them in house blocs like the EU objected to it and China stepped up to help them in their endeavor increasing the profits they made off it by a large margin.
looking at the Japan haters and pro CCP comments here making me laugh, and wondering if such great people tactually read the article and why its becoming a serious controversy there
When the Indonesian government won the high-speed rail contract in 2015, it compared Japanese and Chinese proposals and chose the Chinese proposal, which involved “private investment without government guarantees.” **However, if national funds are now being used, the justification for choosing the Chinese proposal will be fundamentally shaken**. Let’s reconsider the current state of Indonesia’s high-speed rail project, which adopted the Chinese proposal.
No matter how much people badmouth China, the fact remains: Indonesia’s high-speed rail has already been completed.
When will the Japanese-backed high-speed rail in Vietnam and the high-speed rail in India be completed?
Japan was naive in the past.
So where do people think China got its railway technology from? From Japan and Germany. China bought and imported it, and Japan also sold the technology and trained personnel for them. Now China goes around claiming it has mastered high-speed rail technology out of thin air.
Also, if people think China’s high-speed rail system in mainland China is doing well, as of 2025 China has accumulated losses of nearly $1 trillion on its HSR network, with tens of billions in losses every year.
The only completed railway project is the Vientiane line, worth about $5.9 billion, which China built for Laos. Up to now, it hasn’t been able to recover its investment, and Laos may even lose decades of economic development just to service the interest payments to China.
Am Indonesian. Indonesia didn’t need high-speed railway to begin with. Both options weren’t feasible but our brain dead former president Jokowi went on an ego trip to build it as a symbol of economic growth despite experts warning him that it was too damn expensive. Now they’re having issues paying off the bloody thing due to it’s high interest rate. A study was made that it’s going to take more than 300 years to pay it all off. F this dumbass government honestly.
Maybe they saw what happened in India with Japan
It just seems like the Indonesian government is corrupt, so that’s probably why. There also seems to be an assumption that Indonesia’s influence will grow. But that’s a mistake.
It doesn’t seem like a good judgment for a country that doesn’t particularly stand out in core technologies, military power, or capital strength to be creating friction with various other countries. It looks like the bureaucratic elite there are under a serious misperception.
Corruption also has to be within limits—at that level, they’re basically the kind of people who could ruin the country.
don’t worry
The High speed rail project idea is dumb from the start, the rail is not improving economy anywhere, while in fact being a death weight, the whole high speed rail are just an ego project made by previous president.
The thing is, it was build and try competing with existing Rail network for regular train, which already dumb
At the moment Indonesia regular Rail network on Java island already really good, The one that Indonesia really need is a development of rail network outside java island, instead making a high speed train,
This will boost economy on other big island, which led into economy growth, but the politican rather build a fancy new project for bragging
The thing is previous minister of transportation who object this project immediately got replaced, despite he is pushing using the budget to make new rail network outside java
I went to Laos and their high speed train is really good.
nah fuck that, going with the chinese one is always the better move
Really? they still salty about this Jakarta-Bandung HSR thing
Japan proposal is to connect main Jakarta city rail station to Bandung city center which in turn cost more due to cost of land clearing. also Japan got stingy with ToT and everything must use technician from them for maintenance
China proposal is more generous with the station put in the outskirt to minimize the land clearing cost and they agree with all ToT and training all local technician for maintenance and driver
the choice is already set, and ironically Indonesia offer japan for extension from Bandung to Surabaya but they refuse it
Japan, just change your stance on transfer of tech and you’ll be golden. Every SEA countries want ToT. Come on, man.
At least Indonesian high speed railway is running right now
Just see how India highspeed railway right now. Standstill
“Indonesia’s high-speed rail project that betrayed Japan and clung to Xi Jinping”
Lmao.. It’s so funny how the Japanese think they’re so entitled to the rail project. You just lost the project because China made a better offer by allowing technology transfer to Indonesia. and China’s feasibility study result shows that it was better and cheaper compared to Japan’s fs. If Indonesia chose shinkansen that day, the project probably still hasn’t finished by now, Just like India.
This train is retarded from the get go to begin with. Who gives a shit about HSR on an already serviced route with about 9000 more mode of transportation. Should’ve been diverted to develop more railway outside the island or at least add another line for goods transportation.
as Indonesians, this is really a great discussion here
Honestly if indonesia pick japan, the hsr project will not finish until now. Because the nightmare of land acquisition and the cost will more than tripled than china hsr proposal. Not to mention Tech transfer.
Honestly the current MRT system in indonesia built by japan,
According to agreement.. Even when the ticket machine broken must invite the engineer from japan to fixed it. What the heck..
I’m glad indonesia choose china, stay salty japan…
It’s because Japan refused to bring transfer of technology, that’s why China’s offer was more interesting back then since China was at least willing to bring transfer of technology.
Nothing personal bro.
The HSR project itself was controversial since it was more politically motivated rather than based on actual need (we actually need to expand conventional railways outside of Java island). Even our minister of transportation (who also distinguishedly reformed the Indonesian Railways/PT KAI prior to this position), Mr. Ignasius Jonan, rejected any of HSR plan back in 2016. But the project was being pushed by the president anyway. So out of 2 options available, it was the one who promised transfer of technology which was the most interesting.
Look, even France succeeded in selling Dassault Rafale to India and Indonesia, who are both not a traditional user of French-made jet fighters (never even used Mirage III, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000 before). Why? Because France promised partial transfer of technology. Making it more attractive than Sukhoi Su-30 or F-15, both Russia and US are unwilling to give transfer of technology.
You could win us over by offering TOT, one reason we are leaning to china
Geez, it’s been years and Japan is still salty about this.
It’s obvious that Japan was stingy about sharing [technology/knowledge], which is why they weren’t chosen. Plus, the route they proposed went right through the middle of the city, from Manggarai to right next to Bandung Station. You can imagine how the land acquisition costs could have swollen up to 10 times more than China’s route, and the construction time could have taken over 10 years.
And that’s the exact same reason why Japan also lost the tender in Vietnam
The Japanese been yapping about HSR since forever. Where is Vietnam HSR that Japan backed? Where is India HSR that Japan backed? That’s right! Your offer is trash and got eliminated from the market. This is how capitalism works, or are you a communist?
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