6 comments

1. u/AdrixG

   u/gaezer

   u/Available-String-109

   u/Dragon_Fang

   It may not be a particularly interesting grammatical point, but I will note it here for the record, just in case.

   * 僕が結婚したい人 (1)
   * 僕と結婚したい人 (2)
   * 僕が結婚したい、僕と結婚したい人 (3)
   * 僕が結婚したくて、僕と結婚したい人 (4)

   (3) and (4) can be constructed quite naturally. They are slightly literary or explanatory in feel, but they are neither ungrammatical nor excessively unnatural.

   Although (3) and (4) are neither ungrammatical nor excessively unnatural, suppose, hypothetically, counterfactually, that someone found them hard to follow. In that hypothetical scenario…

   Adding 「思っていて」would *not* make them clearer.

   What is actually doing the work is:

   * 僕と結婚したいと思って**くれている**

   … specifically the weight carried by 「くれている」.

   In other words, this is not simply a parallel conjunction of two propositions. What is at work is:

   * The speaker receives the other person’s feelings as a beneficiary
   * The speaker feels grateful for the other person’s goodwill
   * The other person’s inner state is enveloped from the speaker’s perspective

   … the viewpoint operation characteristic of Japanese 「あげもらい」.

   Therefore, if we suppose that:

   * 僕が結婚したい人で、その人も僕と結婚したいと思ってくれている人

   might be clearer than:

   * 僕が結婚したい人で、その人も僕と結婚したいと思っている人

   …that would be because 「くれる」is performing the functions of:

   * fixing the viewpoint
   * giving the relationship a direction

   When 「くれる」is present, a single axis of perspective,

   * 僕 → 相手

   runs through the sentence, stabilizing its structure:

   * The speaker’s viewpoint is anchored
   * The other person’s affection is integrated as “something directed toward the speaker”
   * The two clauses cohere not as “opposing mirror images” but as “a single relationship”

   So the real work is being done not by 「思う」, but by:

   * 「あげもらい」
   * the sense of benefaction
   * the fixing of viewpoint

   If we follow that logic, then:

   * 僕が愛する、僕を愛してくれている人　（◎? — clearer?）←benefactive giving and receiving

   would be clearer than:

   * 僕が愛する、僕を愛している人　（〇 —neither ungrammatical nor unnatural）

   And similarly:

   * 僕に愛されている、僕を愛する人　（◎? — clearer?）←passive construction

   And if (3) or (4) are, hypothetically, hard to follow, that difficulty would stem simply from:

   * 僕と結婚したい人

   or:

   * 僕を愛する人

   and from nothing else.

   It’s simply because Japanese is predicate-centric, and Japanese speakers first try to identify whether a verb is a zero-argument verb, a one-argument verb, a two-argument verb, a three-argument verb, and so on, that’s all there is to it.

   Since the predicate comes at the end of the sentence, you have to hold all the preceding information in working memory and then, at the very last moment, collapse everything into a single point of meaning, so if the structure leading up to that point is convoluted, it’s not entirely impossible that some people might find it hard to follow. That said, if you read a lot of Japanese extensively, that tends to go away. This is probably not, in fact, really a matter of grammar. Rather, it’s best understood as purely a question of processing load.

   When you get to writers like Max Weber or the late Kant, it becomes perfectly normal to encounter:

   * A single sentence running on for several pages (one period across multiple pages)
   * Multiple layers of embedded parentheticals along the way
   * Branching relative clauses
   * Subject and predicate remaining unresolved until the very end,

   so the reader is forced to hold the entire structure in working memory for an extended stretch.

   ***So when someone says that a phrase like***

   ***”僕が結婚したい、僕と結婚したい人”***

   ***is “unnatural Japanese,” my reaction is: hold on, humanity has been processing far more brutal syntax than that, and in enormous quantities. lol.***

   Related Topics:

   [https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1tf9m52/comment/om88m51/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1tf9m52/comment/om88m51/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

   [https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1takx89/comment/olbdwm7/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1takx89/comment/olbdwm7/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

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   >

2. Krystal

   https://preview.redd.it/li8uib6c0t1h1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=93f1438cda3b47dd9a4780de0f9a00c55e94b852

   What does つぞ mean in “喜んで受けてたつぞ、マナブくん！”?
   I can’t find that word in a dictionary and googling it does not help much either.

3. Hello! I am trying to learn the word aviator but I get two different results on google. アビエイター and 飛行士 I am just curious which one is right and why they are different? I get the different spellings when I capitalize the A.

4. [u/Sol_Atomizer](https://www.reddit.com/user/Sol_Atomizer/)

   The 補助動詞 hojo doshi construction using 「てもらう」 includes two types relative to the sentence pattern of the corresponding active sentence:

   # a type that increases the number of nouns (動詞結合価 valency) by one, and a type in which the number of nouns does not change.

   田中が仕事を手伝う。… (1)
   Tanaka helps with the work.

   鈴木　は　田中に仕事を手伝ってもらった。… (2)
   Suzuki had Tanaka help with the work (and benefited from it).

   田中が鈴木にノートを貸す。…. (3)
   Tanaka lends Suzuki his notebook.

   鈴木が田中にノートを貸してもらった。… (4)
   Suzuki had Tanaka lend him his notebook (and benefited from it).

   Sentence (2) is a 「てもらう」 sentence corresponding to the active sentence (1), and sentence (4) is a 「てもらう」 sentence corresponding to the active sentence (3).

   **In (2), “鈴木,” who does not appear in the active sentence, is expressed as the recipient of the benefit of the action with the focus particle は; in this sense, the sentence is close to a causative construction, as the recipient of the benefit exerts some kind of influence on the agent of the action.**

   Sentence (4), on the other hand, is close to a passive construction in that “鈴木,” who is already present in the sentence pattern of the verb 貸す (to lend) as the recipient, is expressed as the recipient of the benefit of the action.

   「てもらう」 sentences without a change in the number of nouns, as in (4), are formed from verbs that require two or more participants for the situation to obtain.

   With 二項動詞 niko doshi or two-place (ditransitive) verbs, the following are examples of this type of 「てもらう」 sentence:

   私は家族に支えてもらった。(←家族が私を支えた。)
   I was supported by my family (and am grateful for it). (← My family supported me.)

   私が君に気づかってもらっては申し訳ない。(←君が私を気づかう。)
   I would feel bad having you worry about me. (← You worry about me.)

   With 三項動詞 or three-place verbs, the following are examples:

   私たちは田中先生に英語を教えてもらった。(←田中先生が私たちに英語を教えた。)
   We had Mr./Ms. Tanaka teach us English (and benefited from it). (← Mr./Ms. Tanaka taught us English.)

   私は父に家でとれた野菜を送ってもらった。(←父が私に家でとれた野菜を送った。)
   I had my father send me vegetables grown at home (and was grateful for it). (← My father sent me vegetables grown at home.)

   私は先輩に佐藤さんを紹介してもらった。(←先輩が私に佐藤さんを紹介した。)
   I had my senior introduce me to Sato (and was grateful for it). (← My senior introduced me to Sato.)

5. 【倫太郎】「お前を天才脳科学者と見込んで、話がある」

   what’s the usage of と here?

6. u/Sol_Atomizer

   「てある」

   The 補助動詞hojo doshi construction with「てある」includes a usage where the noun representing the 対象 taosho of an active sentence functions as the subject. In sentences with「てある」, the agent of the action 能動主体 nodo shutai is not expressed within the sentence; instead, the noun representing the 対象 taisho of the action is expressed as the subject.

   駐車場に鈴木さんの車　が　とめてある。(← 鈴木さんが駐車場に車をとめている。) (Suzuki-san’s car is parked in the parking lot. ← Suzuki-san is parking the car in the parking lot.)

   部屋に花　が　飾ってある。(← 佐藤さんが部屋に花を飾っている。) (Flowers are displayed in the room. ← Sato-san is displaying flowers in the room.)

   廊下に荷物　が　置いてある。(← 田中さんが廊下に荷物を置いている。) (Luggage is placed in the hallway. ← Tanaka-san is placing luggage in the hallway.)

   This usage of「てある」resembles the following passive sentences whose purpose is backgrounding, that is, not expressing the agent of the action 動作の主体 dosa no shutai within the sentence, in that it adopts a sentence pattern where the noun representing the agent of the action is not expressed within the sentence, and instead the noun representing the 対象 taisho of the action serves as the subject.

   駐車場に鈴木さんの車が(鈴木さんによって)とめられている。(Suzuki-san’s car is (by Suzuki-san) parked in the parking lot.)

   部屋に花が(佐藤さんの手で) 飾られている。(Flowers are displayed in the room (by Sato-san’s hand).)

   廊下に荷物が(田中さんによって) 置かれている。(Luggage is placed in the hallway (by Tanaka-san).)

   **However, while the passive sentences above allow the agent of the action 動作の主体 dosa no shutai to be expressed explicitly using expressions such as「によって」and「の手で」, in sentences with「てある」the agent of the action 動作の主体 is syntactically absent, and explicitly expressing the agent 動作の主体 dosa no shutai tends to produce unnatural results.**

   ✕「駐車場に車が鈴木さんによってとめてある。(✕ Suzuki-san’s car is parked in the parking lot by Suzuki-san.)

   ?「佐藤さんの手で部屋に花が飾ってある。(? Flowers are displayed in the room by Sato-san’s hand.)

   ✕「田中さんによって廊下に荷物が置いてある。(✕ Luggage is placed in the hallway by Tanaka-san.)

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